teacher strike

[geForce]

Oh, they left that part out in the media. I found more info on it:
http://www.makeafuture.ca/career-resour ... ry-finder/

It looks like it ranges from $74k to $81k.
$74k is still a pretty good salary.

[se7entse7en]

From the link you posted it seems to me that it ranges from 65 to 81 after 10 years. Starting at around 43.

[geForce]

I only looked under the Vancouver one. For whatever reason, that one has Cat 4 as n/a.

It looks like to qualify for Cat 5, they have to complete some related courses at university. To qualify for Cat 5+, they have to complete 30 credits worth over and above a bachelor's degree. That's 10 university level courses, which isn't too bad. Some people with a Master's degree or a double major bachelor's would already qualify.

[Duncan]

sorry, i didn't mean to be so strongly typed in my post earlier. I want to apologize if it seemed like i was.

yea, you need a masters degree to get that high up there in the cat5 level.

anyway, i think a big problem (not the only one but a huge issue) is that right now, the government has all the money and thus all the power and the teachers think that if they don't as for a mile, they wont be given an inch. with CBA bargaining, it's unfortunately like this. You ask for 12.75% over 4 years and you might get 9% over 5. But if you start with 9% over 5, you might only get 7% over 6 years (which is actually what the government proposed from what i understand). that's why i think both are at fault. It's just like the NHL lockout. Everything's posturing until the wee hours of a deadline where both sides really want things to get done.

striking is a last ditch effort by teachers, but they have no choice in an union environment and especially in the public education sector. It's not like like the private sector where if you don't like your employer, you can quit and look for another job. As a public school teacher, you can only go to another district, but they're all under the same union and government umbrella. Private school or moving away to teach elsewhere is your only other option. Unfortunately, private school actually pays less and offers less benefits than public so that doesn't even make it any better. We forget we have choices to move from one company to another, but teachers really don't have the choice unless they choose a different profession altogether. We're actually getting close to this crossroad because of the high supply of teachers and low demand for full time positions. We're not sure if there's even a future for Alicia in teaching. IF she graduated 2 years earlier from her education program (which she should've done instead of bummed around for no good reason), then she might've had a full time position by now when there were actual full time positions available. I think many teachers see this issue and they're scared for their future so they're fighting hard for it. If the government continues to cut funding, more and more jobs will be lost. They cut something in the magnitude 500 full time teaching positions from coquitlam over the past year. Sure, it's partly due to low enrollment because of the low birthing rate, but it's also because funds keep getting cut. i think Librarians are extinct now too (mind you i don't have a huge problem with this because with today's digital age, they're not that useful).

sorry, just ranting. I think teachers need to b!tch a little less, and the government should stop giving their politicians ridonk raises and bonuses and spend a little more on our kids' education. I can't help but feel like i'm caught in the middle of all 3 angles. I have a wife who's a teacher, i'm a parent of a child in the public system, and i also pay taxes to the government who spends irresponsibly.

/rant

[Duncan]

here's a blog from a former teacher that quotes some numbers on the situation. I can't vouch for the numbers and even the blog says it doesn't have any citations but if the numbers are remotely true, it sheds a little light on the situation from the teachers' perspective.

[geForce]

[se7entse7en]

[geForce]

I think the classroom size/comp is related to the more teachers issue, but I don't think the two are completely interlinked. The BCTF wants smaller class sizes, but they didn't propose how they think that should look like in the big picture. It could be either opening more schools (hire more teachers), or turning students away. Schools are already turning students away now due to the large number of kids in some districts. To be fair though, I guess that's not something you can bargain for in a work contract.

You may be right about the classroom size/comp vs raise thing. They do have a public image to upkeep. That could be an interesting move if the government proposed that though. I would like to see how the BCTF would react to it.

[Duncan]

It's hard to prove the correlation, but i believe the decline in funding is a result of a decline of enrollment which actually is a decline in enrollment in the public system and as a result the private school system gets fatter. But it all starts from the fact that entitled ignorant parents have turned the public system into a joke. Where they threaten to sue every chance they get and the public system is handcuffed so badly that it can't education and discipline kids properly. Because of this, parents who can (and probably some who can't as well) afford private schooling, send their kids in that direction because they've lost faith in the public school system. How does it make sense that kids aren't allowed to fail, and kids who screw around are rewarded while the hard working ones are ignored and neglected as a result because they're doing fine and their parents aren't crying foul because their kid didn't beat up another kid but the issue at hand is the fact that the teacher put his/her hand on your kid to stop him from pummeling another kid's face in?

sorry, ranting again, but i think the public system has gotten a little screwed up because of the parents out there who are willing to blame everyone but their kids

[nature boy]

lol, i started this thread just to rant, and i expected like 4 views, but man alive it's bustling in here.

going back to the very loose parallel with teaching and my job (our responsibilities can only be compared by long stretch, they have to deal with unreasonable and bitching kids, and i have to deal with unreasonable and bitching adults that pay my salary), i only get like 2% raise a year (if i get it), but the whole clergy residence deduction is pretty sweet. however, if that cat 5 thing starts at 65k, that's almost the max that i can make after 15 years (that's only if the congregation decides to give me fair housing). and i start with a master's degree.

the difference (in my opinion) is that i really knew what i was getting myself into (after 10+ years of schooling). i have my easy days (like way back when this forum was REALLY bustling) and my hard days (like every f*cking day since 3 weeks before this past christmas until now... i think i've only had more than one day off in a row like twice since then). i have people that are easy to deal with, and people who i'd like to strangle because of their complete and utter ignorance. however, i'm still going to come into the office. the job can suck major ballz, but it can also be very rewarding.

i guess i'm glad that i don't have to deal with a union or a government that dictates how my job is to be done. so maybe i don't completely understand. i just don't want to hear the whole "wah, our jobs are so important but no one pays attention to how much more important we are than you" crap. i realise that not all teachers are saying this, but it sure sounds like it (coming from my friend's posts... not just about this strike but about how awesome of a teacher she is...yes, she's one of THOSE posters... lol).

i think overall this is a pretty touchy situation on both side. on the one side, teachers need to eat and feel like they should be getting fair wage. on the other hand, this is a field that makes the government no immediate money so it's hard to keep investing into. granted, that's a very short-sighted analysis, but it is one that an understanding retired teacher of 40 years told me.

[nature boy]

[nature boy]

so this person nailed what i was thinking the whole time:
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/alyson-jon ... 96009.html

stop saying it's "for the children", when really it's not. it might not be as bad as selfish as i've been painting, but it really isn't a selfless acted force upon by the evil government who has put the children's lives at stake.
the overwhelming vote to strike is an indicator of this.

[geForce]

I was saying that too. Although, to be fair, I've also said that this is because the BCTF is misrepresenting and misleading the teachers. I've seen some teachers being lead into overzealous frenzy over these negotiations, and all in the name of the kids. When you speak to them though, they really do care for the kids, but as teachers individually, they don't know any other way to deal with an entity as large as the BC gov't. That's when they rely on the BCTF's leadership.

[Wetundies]

Why can't you stick all the "special" kids into a class instead of mixing them and complaining that they are taking time away from the other kids?

I had one teacher who used to always say, "are you stupid or just lazy?" No matter how small of a class, you can't fix kids are naturally stupid, sorry, "special".

All schools make you take some kind of career planning courses, so they should know what they were getting into if they wanted to become a teacher and expected salary levels, or for any other careers for that matter.

[se7entse7en]