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The Chu Forums • View topic - Gordo

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A COMPLETE Waste of Time

Gordo

Place on the interwebz for the NerdZ to waste time.

Re: Gordo

Postby se7entse7en » Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:13 pm

I'm not very political.

<!-(Secretly, my objective is to destabilize the Canadian economy so that the USD/CND exchange rate sways in my favor. I'm tired of earning less and less money every day I go to work)->

I don't really know much about what's going on other than the little bits I accidentally catch on the news and the anti-Campbell propaganda that I get from family. (It used to be anti-NDP... now it's anti-Campbell. No doubt it'll change yet again).

Personally, the guy just rubs me the wrong way though... always did. I think it's the perceived arrogance. Bully'esque'

Here are some of my thoughts:

IMO the Liberals/Campbell got into power because of two main things. 1) The promise to get rid of photo-radar. 2) Punish the NDP. That's a big part of the way we vote in this province. To punish, not to reward.

Just like Obama, Campbell inherited a mess. Things had to get cleaned up and that meant some sacrifices had to be made. I think for the most part the province drank the kool-aide... until he gave himself a raise. Even then, though, they were just still too p'ed off with the NDP so they gave him slack.

The NDP's tendency to give out handouts to every Tom, Dick, and Shaun was not a wise way to run government, but in the case of at least Shaun, it turned out to benefit him, and the province.

We lost a 15% income tax cut. Why? Two possible reasons come to my mind (which I guess are basically the same, with just a little different spin):
1) the bribe failed and the party/leader wouldn't benefit from it. No point in giving a gift if you're not going to get a thank you. Might as well take it back and save it for a better time.
2) the party was not really in favor of it to begin with, but Campbell was determined to buy back the people. The bribe fails, the party says, "Told you so", Campbell resigns, and the party takes back on his promise.

Economy in the dumps (worldwide). Gas prices go up. So what happens? He decides to go ahead with the pre-planned increase of the Carbon tax to promote environmental awareness (which affects the poorest of the province the greatest). He gets to look like he's doing something about the environment and makes money for the gov't at the same time. At the same time he's driving 'important' people around in huge gas guzzling suv's advertising the greenest Olympics ever. He can afford it. Obviously, the environment is not really a concern of his. Does he drive a smart car? Ummm... I guess I went off on a bit of a rant there. Oh well...

Instead of negotiating contracts, he tears them up. Reminded me of my ex-employer who said, "Your contract is only as good as the money you have to back it up in court." Nice. Is that the way of a good leader?

Closing down hospitals and making people have to drive 3-4 hours just to get to the nearest hospital? Really?? To put it into perspective, Manning Park is only about 2 1/2 hours away.

Closing down schools... due to lack of enrollment? I think there's a potential chicken vs the egg debate in there somewhere.

Promoting amateur athletics (ie Olympics/BigShow) and at the same time telling school kids to take a hike in the park.

I think the people of the province are just tired of it all, and having the HST crammed down their throats is the straw that broke the camel's back. Is the HST good or bad for the province? Sure, the people are guilty of not debating the merits of the HST, but neither is the government. There is no debate. There is no real education on the issue. There's just propaganda. There is no vote. It's just cram, cram, cram.

I don't believe in this idea of 'trickle down effect'. It's kinda like saying that he'll take a paycut when the province is in recession. Not gonna happen. Nothing ever seems to get trickled down to the people. Country is in recession, but Cable Company's are making record profits and continue to raise rates every couple of months? That's the reality. Is that the only leg that they're trying to use to hold up the HST?

What's the point of the recall campaign? Simple. To punish the Liberals. That's why we vote in this province. To punish.

Referendums are a waste of money. Especially when nothing's gonna change regardless of the results. And IMO, that's his legacy. Contracts are only worth the money you have to back them up in court.

But like I said at the beginning... I don't really know much about politics. I don't vote. I choose not to vote to spite anyone, and I really don't like the other options.
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Re: Gordo

Postby Keiho » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:40 pm

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Re: Gordo

Postby nature boy » Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:54 pm

whoa, this thread just went all political. maybe we should start a subforum just for politics and such?

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Re: Gordo

Postby se7entse7en » Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:38 am

Tearing up nursing contracts (Bill 29?), shutting down and/or downsizing hospitals (Nelson, Castlegar, Kimberley just to name three hospitals in the Kootenays alone that I'm aware of), back-to-work legislation (nurses, transit), withdrawing a $130,000 grant to BCSS (BC School Sports) ~6 months before the olympics (a worldwide recognition of amateur sports and athletics held in BC) and defending it by saying, "Rather than formal team sports, maybe people will be doing more walking or dancing or playing in parks." (Quote from education minister) Huh?? She really botched that PR spin move! That actually made my blood boil!

And now the HST. People are tired of being railroaded by Campbell. IMO That's why there's such an aversion to the tax without anyone knowing/caring what it's even about.

I don't think people would be so against increased taxes if it meant better schools, hospitals, etc. Blowing our wad (of tax dollars) on the Olympics/Security and introducing the HST and using fed buyout money to pay for them, on the otherhand... Whether this is in fact true or not... who knows?? You can't get a straight answer out of anybody.

And that brings me to what frustrates me with politics. I don't want to have to spend hours and hours a day researching the validity of every little statement made by these bozos. There are no whole truths in politics. You have these Fudge-it Budgets. The NDP were brutal for this. But now the liberals are pulling the same scheme with the Olympics/Security 'balanced budget' issue. I'm tired of the crap. Regarding schools: One side says funding is increased. The other side says the funding increase doesn't cover the cuts that were made. Which is it? One side says 10 schools were closed. The other side says 30 schools were created. First side comes back and says, 26 PRIVATE schools were created. Only 4 public schools were. (Note: I made up the numbers, though the debate is not made up.) C'mon! Which is it?? I'm sick of the peeing contest between the Liberals and the schools and the nurses and transit.

What is the fed's involvement in the HST? It was my understanding that our HST tax dollars go to the feds, and they decide what to do with it. Do I trust the feds to know what's best for BC and to act in BC's best interest? I don't want to hear propaganda from either side.

Spell it out straight for once. But that doesn't seem to happen in politics. We vote them in in the hopes that they will act in OUR best interest and they end up running the country/province with impunity. I believe this is the perception of many British Columbians/Canadians. This is why they're jumping on this particular anti-HST bandwagon. They finally have a way to show their dissatisfaction with how things are run in this province/country. Ever wonder why voter turnout is so low?


Oh, for sure the HST hasn't been in long enough to notice any real difference. The point I was trying to make earlier, though, is that I don't see big business' prosperity trickling down to MY wallet. Shaw Cable has been making unprecedented profits with their constant rate hikes, during a recession no less, and I'm not seeing any of it filling my wallet in any way, shape or form.

The Canadian dollar has been virtually at parity with the USD for several years now. Has there really been any noticeable effect? Has the price at the pumps come down? Have the prices of books come down? Are new cars any cheaper? Am i paying any less for "Grown in Washington" apples? Why are Canadians paying among the highest cellphone rates in the world??

They claim it's because market conditions are different in Canada. What does that really mean though? We pay more because we're willing to pay more??

Someone's making a profit, and I just don't see any of it benefiting me.

In the same way, I don't see the HST resulting in any trickle down into my wallet either. But then again, I don't really know anything about it. All I know is that as a Canadian sole proprietor working from home for an American company (in the field that I do), I'm HST exempt. I hope that whatever happens, that doesn't change. I don't think I could handle the additional 15% tax hit to my income.
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Re: Gordo

Postby Keiho » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:14 pm

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Re: Gordo

Postby nature boy » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:35 pm

in terms of the market conditions in canada, i thought it was simply about sheer volume. a country as large as ours with a population less than that of japan (which is roughly 30 times smaller in terms of space taken), you're bound to have to ship products a little further. so for an apple to be grown it might cost the farmer about .0000003 cents. but to get that apple to that one guy in the yukon that might want it'll cost maybe $5. so that $5 is divided among the other 9 customers who want that same type of apple across our vast some 9 million square km's of country we have.

not to mention with the auto industry it's cheaper to bring a billion cars into the states than it is to bring 48 cars into canada. someone has to pay for those shipping costs and the more you sell, the cheaper that would be.

it's like costco, the more you buy, the less you pay as the cost of each individual unit is brought down. it just sucks that we live in this gigantic land mass with only about 29,999,999 other people which is nothing compared to the other countries out there (or california, for that matter). we simply don't consume enough or even have enough people to consume enough to bring prices down.

oh, that and the us is full of a bunch of bullies that makes everything cheaper for them as well.

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Re: Gordo

Postby se7entse7en » Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:41 pm

I guess I just expected a 30+% swing in the value of the Canadian dollar over the past 5 years to have had a bigger impact.
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Re: Gordo

Postby Keiho » Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:46 pm

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Re: Gordo

Postby nature boy » Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:46 pm

actually, i heard our energy is given away for free. don't remember where i heard that, but it had something to do with free trade or something?

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Re: Gordo

Postby Wetundies » Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:21 am

is there a readers digest version?
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Re: Gordo

Postby jeSteR » Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:25 am

Wow... I step away for the weekend and blamo!!!

Kent's pretty much covered up a lot of my takes already, though I'm a little less right leaning on some of the specific details.
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Re: Gordo

Postby se7entse7en » Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:31 am

I'm an exporter. I expected to see a bigger difference in the price of imported goods with the swing in the value of the CND vs USD so as to balance out my 'losses' a bit. Oh well. Sucks to be me.

I heard (I believe from Campbell himself) that the HST would result in cheaper goods and services being passed down to the consumer. This is what I considered to be 'trickle down' and I highly doubt this will happen and is why I gave the examples above, ie. Shaw, CNDvsUSD... and some businesses have been reported on the news as saying that the prices of their goods and services will not be lowered, essentially saying they will be pocketing whatever benefit they receive. (I'm not sure which business/industry it was... they may they may have been talking about alcohol or beer/wine... or something like that).

However, if you consider 'trickle down' to refer to the taxes paid by business, to be used by the gov't to benefit the people, I can see that being passed back to the province.

Watching a portion of a Vander Zalm interview a couple months ago gave me the impression that the HST collected goes to the feds, who then decide what to do with it. They decide what's best for BC. The feds buyout the province for the right to do so. In Ontario, this buyout was in one lump sum payment. In BC it will be in 2 lump sums... one of which already occured (which is why they had to cram the HST in so fast) the other will come shortly before the next election (according to Zalm, to balance BC's budget and make Campbell look like a hero in time for the election).

Note, that may or not be the case, but does cause me to pause with concern.

As for a Reader's Digest Version:
People are tired of being railroaded by the liberals (first the unions, and now everybody else). They feel they have a 'champion' in Vander Zalm and so they're jumping on the anti-HST bandwagon without really knowing or caring what the HST is about. We love to punish our politicians.

In Keiho's opinion, the HST is a good tax. It is a fair tax that is good for business (more efficient), and fair for us as it is a consumption tax. If you don't consume goods or services, you don't get taxed. Virtually every single economist, third party economic think tanks have all come out in support of consumption taxes as being more efficient and fairer.

The success of big business results in greater taxes going to the gov't which then can be used to support essential services (schools, hospitals, etc.).

Am I close?
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Re: Gordo

Postby nature boy » Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:51 pm

i think it's funny that schools and hospitals are shutting down/cutting back like crazy in spite of these "new" taxes.

where then are our tax dollars going when the essentials (schools/hospitals) aren't getting them?

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Re: Gordo

Postby Keiho » Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:39 pm

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Re: Gordo

Postby se7entse7en » Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:25 pm

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