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The Chu Forums • View topic - snow tires

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snow tires

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Re: snow tires

Postby se7entse7en » Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:41 pm

I always seem to get screwed over by tires. I had studded tires on my truck for a couple of years, then I moved here and was told that they were illegal. The landlords also started complaining that they were marking up the underground garage. I went and bought Blizzaks. Used them for like... two seasons, then got rid of my truck.

I ran all-seasons on my car for a few years, then thought I should get some winter tires. Got some generic Kal Tire brand winter tires... paid through the nose (I think it was ~900 for the tires and to get them mounted). Noticed a bit of a difference, but they sure weren't like studded tires.

I should probably get my winter's put on, but I'm not looking forward to the bill again... not to mention that I'm expecting to have to wait 4 weeks for them to order new rims... 'cause you know... knowing my luck, they won't have any in stock... just like last year.

Anyway, in summary: +1 for the studded tires... especially if you're planning on going up the summits or to whistler or what-have-you.
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Re: snow tires

Postby nature boy » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:10 pm

studded tires are illegal unless the snow out there is crazy. they'd be ok on a day like today.

but for the mustang i'd at the very least get dedicated snows (read: not just all weathers) and a few sandbags in the back.
most of us front wheel drives could get away with all seasons, but if the weather predictions are correct i'd think any rwd vehicle is going to need a lot of help.

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Re: snow tires

Postby jeSteR » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:30 pm

I don't bother for the 3 cuz even if I had studded tires, I'd just be plowing snow.
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Re: snow tires

Postby nature boy » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:34 pm

time to get on bags then lol. they're so cheap right now.

if i still had the vr6 i'd probably be thinking about it... talk about plowing snow.

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Re: snow tires

Postby Keiho » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:45 pm

Running Blizzak WS60s on the Lex, have WS50s on the P5.

Kaltire sells Nokian, and those are $$, but worth every penny. Here's an excerpt from a guy who knows what he's talking about on Nasioc regarding winter tires:

I've been paid to test tires, so I'll just throw out a few tips for you guys, make what you will out of it

if you want premium snow tires (i.e. real good ones), not what is cheapest and still looks like a snow (i.e. has the right compounds, etc.):

baselines

- the best tire for any given condition by definition and function is not the best tire for any other condition, so you always need to make a compromise for what you want

- all seasons dont compare, period, no matter what tire rack says, or anyone posts about how they've never been stuck

- we've had to race, for many years, due to regulations, on ice and snow, on normal street tires, so we know how they perform in real winter conditions. how they perform in "not real" winter conditions (i.e. dry, or +20C pavement), we have no idea, but we think they will suck no matter what

- most end user reviews for snows should have a bit less weight because a) most people think "slippery" is anything that isn't grippy b) most people who crashed like to blame their "crappy tires" and c) most people dont actually know the difference between a sliding tire that still has grip, from a sliding tire that has no grip

0) pure snow tires are better in deep snow, than pure ice tires, which are better than pure snow tires, on ice. Both fall into the category called "Studless Ice & Snow".

1) pure ice and pure snow tires will suck on pavement, and will more than likely either shred or melt, if you drive them aggro.

2) performance winters will never, ever, be better than pure ice or pure snow tires, on ice and snow. No matter how "awesome" they were for whomever says so.

3) when I say 'pure ice', I am talking about super soft compound ultra siped ice tires. Not "they look like they have sipes,so they rock". When I say 'pure snow', I am talking about deep lug soft compound tires with an open pattern and ice sipes.

4) there are some combo tires which are in-between pure ice and pure snow, which is really, what you need, unless you do ice rally, or always drive in fresh pow. Many "full snow" tires on the market tend to lean towards snow, or ice, some are spot on in the middle, but unles you are racing you want one, to do both, and the right one usually depends on where you live.

4) when I say 'performance winter', this is the majority of what people see on the market, these work decent on wet and sometimes dry pavement, and aren't "as bad" as all seasons, on ice and in pure snow. Some are good in slush and others re scary in slush. But they dont compare to "Studless Ice & Snow" in real ice and snow conditions. Tire rack calls these "Performance Winter Tires"

Here are some example of 'pure ice' and 'pure snow' tires (caveat being that tirerack is only showing certain brands). Two of the best brands not on tire rack but that we know work awesome are Hakka and Yokohama (also pictured):

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/types/...Studless-47857
Yokohama IG20 (studless)
Hakka 5/7 (for studding)

(note - we have actually raced on almost every tire in this list)...

Here are some examples of 'performance winters' (caveat being tirerack is only showing certain brands). Two of the best brands not on tire rack but that we know work awesome are Hakka and Yokohama (also pictured):

Yokohama W. Drive
Hakka R / RSi

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/types/snows.jsp

(note: we've also raced on almost every tire in this list)

5) performance winters are usually in the 'performance' sizes. pure ice and snows usually come in smaller sizes and not so often in the 17/18/19" sizes.

so you should buy, depending on what you are doing. The best tire for every weekend to whistler isn't the same as the guy who goes up maybe once a year.

Finally, I wouldn't, AT ALL, go out on anything but winter tires, as would most people who have done back to back testing under the same conditions, with a winter tire vs. an all season.

Back in the day my favorite ice/snow combo tire was the WS-50 (which you cant buy anymore) and the WS-60 IS NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE. Then it became the IG10 (which you cant buy anymore). Now its the IG20/30. No tire OTHER than a WS-50 or an IG10/20 has won a national level ice rally in the last 12 years. And with studs one, of the Haks. BTW whomever says the Hakka5 is the gold standard... as them how many national rallies have been won on them...

Back in the day my favorite performance winter was the LM. Now its the W-Drive. Or a Hakka R. Same reasons as above.

The only caveat is I dont actually know where you can buy Haks these days... I think Kal tire is the only option ?? And all of these tires aren't cheap (as usual ygwypf).

For ultra-price conscious you wont get the same performance but there are popular options like the KW and Hancocks, but back to back apples to apples (i.e. studded to studded or studless to studless) its pretty clear what works, what doesn't.
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Re: snow tires

Postby nature boy » Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:37 am

that's a lot of information, but not to sound like a d!ck, it's pretty useless information for us regular chaps who just want to get to work and back.
i don't think we have enough ice/snow in vancouver to call for a "pure ice" or "pure snow" tire as that guy put it, rather i think what most of us (on here at least) want is a good well rounded performer in the winter months (which could mean anything from snow, wet, dry, -10 to +10 degrees).

i.e. i'm not going to be changing my wheels everyday depending on weather. and the way the weather goes here in vancouver, it'd probably have to be more often than that if i went with some of those above suggestions. we're not rally drivers. we're not even race drivers. heck, some people here are barely even drivers lol.

and i think it's "hankooks" ;)

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Re: snow tires

Postby Keiho » Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:04 am

I think that's his point, there are different tires for different needs and to summarize, all seasons are bonkers so get winters, and with winters you get what you paid for.

Think about it, you can have the best car in the world, and even then it's connected to the road via the 4 tires. Do you really REALLY want to put your own life, your family's and other's life at risk because you decided to cheap out on budget tires? Basically, for your 5 go with a snow/ice tire a la Bridgestone Blizzaks WS60 or whatever else he recommends. I have it on the Lex, yes, it's not a performance winter but I don't need performance in the winter, even when it's dry out. I adjust my driving to the tires, not the other way around.

And even in the summer season I'd still go out with the best tires that I can afford. Tires and brakes are two things that I will never ever go budget on for any of my cars.

Lol Pat's probably making fun of the Hankooks by calling them hancocks. He's more or less sponsored by Yokohama since he races in the Canadian rally championship lol! Good to see that he's open to every brand though even if he's sponsored by Yokohama.
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Re: snow tires

Postby geForce » Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:34 am

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Re: snow tires

Postby jeSteR » Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:51 am

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Re: snow tires

Postby nature boy » Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:24 pm

i think i'm just going to go with all weather for the mazda and stick with the all season/summer with the golf.
firstly because that's pretty much the set up i already have on the golf so i don't have to sink anymore money into it. and for the mazda changing out the wheels on that thing takes forever even with a different jack. also, i don't have room to store all those wheels either.

now i just have to wait out the tires to wear out... 60,000 km to go! haha.

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Re: snow tires

Postby Keiho » Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:49 pm

Gotta do what you gotta do. I live in a condo and both our cars have separate sets of wheels/tires. I just make the trip to my parent's garage. It's inconvenient, but it's a heck of lot safer and honestly more fun being able to drive like a hoon yet still be in control in the slippery stuff.

I will never NEVER buy all season tires again. It's pretty much only a North American thing, ask people in Europe if they sell all seasons and they'd probably ask you what they are. :lol:
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Re: snow tires

Postby nature boy » Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:13 pm

all seasons are different from all weathers though.
all weathers are more widely rated, all seasons not so much.

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Re: snow tires

Postby Keiho » Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:15 am

They're ALL compromise tires, trust me. The only one that would fit the bill is the Nokian one that J mentioned somewhere, and that's only because it's essentially a winter tire still.
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Re: snow tires

Postby geForce » Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:42 am

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Re: snow tires

Postby Keiho » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:26 pm

There's got to be someone with space you can put your wheels at. Fynn's? Jason's? Heck if you really really want to let me know and you can store it at my parent's too.
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