let's talk politics (federal)

[joel]

ok so a vote of non-confidence just went through last week. i don't know a lot of the details, i think it was on the federal budget which the coalition voted down?

anyways, since it looks like i'll need to be voting again soon, i want to try and make some conscious effort to make an educated vote. so please educate me. what is going on with the federal government what are your own personal views on the different parties, the candidates and anything else you thing is related.

Hopefully by election date I'll have enough information that i'll know what i am voting for.

[joel]

so a vote of non-confidence...

my first response to this is anger, that we need to call another federal election that is likely to waste tax dollars so that some bureaucrats can argue over their share over political power... who do i blame. my first thought is to blame the coalition since it's directly their actions to that have come to this point. however the coalition is blaming the conservatives for being to stubborn and forcing their hands... so who's fault is it really?

status quo? things for the most part seem relatively good economically in canada since the recent crash in 2008, right? canada is supposedly one of the economies that are bouncing back the fastest... is that due to the what the conservatives have been doing in office or are they just taking advantage of a good situation? or are things not as good as what I have been hearing? (the indicators for me are the cdn dollar is booming, hockey markets in canada are booming and i still have a job, not sure if those are necessarily good indicators to use)

minority/majority government? if we elect another minority government, are we just going to be at the same old song and dance in another year...

[se7entse7en]

I don't know anything about federal politics. All I know is that Ignatieff reminds me of Nixon. I don't know why, but I can just imagine him saying, "I'm not a croook!" someday. :/

Regardless of who gets in, I suspect we'll end up with yet another minority gov't.

Off topic comment:
I kinda like that NDP (provincial) commercial. Cristy Crunch... Train giveaway... etc. I got a little chuckle.

[supersuk]

Conservatives havent royally f'd anything up yet.

and I dont follow politices close enough to give a educated opinion yet... I always vote though.

My guess is the same as yours, another minority and the same old.

[nature boy]

i usually vote for the green party because they'll never win and nothing ever changes anyway.

[geForce]

We probably can't affect the bigger picture on the federal level with our quoting in our province, but maybe we can vote for a better provincial influence at the parliament?

BC is already so looked over by the federal government that one thing we would want to avoid is a provincial Liberal majority representing BC at a Conservative majority government at the federal level. Not sure how much of a difference that would make, but seems to make the most sense to me.

Actually, wasn't there that one year where we voted in a Liberal MP and then he switched over to Conservative after the election was over?

[nature boy]

from how i understand our government to work, only certain seats are awarded to those elected, and to make any sort of change the majority of the seats need to be had. not once (from what i understand) has the number of seats to make any positive influence been reached. so regardless of how the election goes, hardly ever will there be change because of the way the system works (i.e. the losers still get a huge say in what goes on).

[geForce]

Not sure what you're talking about. What do you mean by only certain seats are awarded to those elected?

Anyway, I'm not saying that we should vote to make BC the majority in the government, but to vote for someone who is aligned with the majority governement so at the very least we're not against it. Like, if we have a LIberal majority government in Ottawa, it would be worse if we have a Conservative MP representing BC.

It looks like this might be a moot point anyway since polls are indicating a minority government again. So far, they're saying 26% Liberal and 29% Conservative.

[joel]

I didn't know that the provincial and federal parties were necessarily tied to one another besides using the same name. what did the polls say about the rest of the 45% go?

[geForce]

NDP is in there of course, but at a smaller percentage as usual. I think they got like 10-15%, I forget.
The rest are people are not voting or voting for parties not worth mentioning. I think the Bloc is in there somewhere too.

[nature boy]

the coalition government. in order for anything to pass, you need majority vote, right? but from what i understand the coalition government has all parties represented, whether they won or not. the winners get a few more seats (votes) than the losers but they never get the majority. in other words, even if the green party ever get elected then they can't really do anything because they still won't ever have the majority of the seats (votes) when passing new laws and policies and stuff.

or is that just federal? i don't know if provincial works the same way.

[geForce]

We're not voting for a coalition government though. A coalition would happen if the minority governments form one, but it's not something we can vote on. Besides, it's just an accusation that the Liberal party will form one, and there are no plans for a coalition at this point.

Passing legislation in the end is about the number of votes, but most of the politicking is done during the debate on each legislation that's being passed. The Green Party probably won't be able to influence any votes one way or the other, but if we voted some Liberal MP's to paliament in a Liberal majority government, then our BC rep would have at least a better chance of influencing their own party members to vote one way or another. Who in their right mind would listen to a Green Party MP? haha

[nature boy]

oh i thought that's just how it worked. my buddy luke from saskatoon used to always talk politics with me, although he knew i had no clues as to wtf he was talking about.

that's the one piece that i remembered and thought i'd add to the conversation, but apparently i fail. carry on.

[se7entse7en]

It isn't necessarily the number of votes that count (Popular Vote), but the number of seats won. A party can win the popular vote (meaningless unless there's a riot), yet end up with no seats in the House of Commons.

The number of seats allocated to a province depends on population plus some fudge factors. According to Wiki, Ontario gets 95, Quebec gets 75, and BC gets 28 out of a total of 279. That's why the election is over by the time it reaches the west.

I don't believe Minority Governments (where the winner ends up with less than 50% of the seats) are all that common in Canada. However, since Jean Chrétien/Paul Martin, that's all that we've had.

I think having so many consecutive minority governments says one of two things:
1) We like all the parties. They all have something we want and in the best interest of the country, they should work together.

2) We dislike all the parties and don't really care who gets in. It's all the same dung, just a different name.

[joel]

oh when you meant BC rep you are talking about the federal MPs who have ridings in BC (not provincial mlas which is what i thought you were talking about). my wonder is how much of a voice does each riding really get within their own party. Or does the party leader and maybe a few key guys close to him just dictate the parties policy on all legislation.

in regards to passing legislation, i think every year the leading party has to table at least one piece of legislature, the financial budget. so they can't just sit on their butts twiddling their thumbs the entire year.