hey you guys with kids

[nature boy]

gut wrenching story. a bit more dramatic than it needs to be, but the message is clear.
http://www.essentialbaby.com.au/life-st ... 2e0du.html

having said that, accidents happen. we can be as safe as possible, but those accidents will still happen. it's no one's fault, which is why they're called accidents. this mom needs to learn to forgive herself for something that wasn't her fault.

[geForce]

Hey, there's a subforum for this kinda stuff. I'm not a part of it, but I know it's there.

[nature boy]

no traffic whatsoever in that forum.

[jeSteR]

[nature boy]

negligence is a broad term i find. remember that story about some ny kid taking the subway by himself at 9 years old? that caused an uproar.

we have a lot of the furniture tied down, but we also have a lot that aren't (like some bookshelves in that storage room on the main floor). i don't feel the need to tie everything down, especially when the kids are never near that bookshelf (nor could they get near if they wanted to, as there's a bunch of crap in front of them).

tying stuff down in the kids' rooms is another thing though i guess. we're pretty careful with them and tell them never to open those drawers (ryan usually doesn't until we tell him to). but we also (at least i do) try to load the dressers properly, like the heavy stuff on the bottom drawers and light(er) stuff on the top drawers.

i don't mind her getting her story out, and she should. but i feel like she was a little too hard on herself for wanting to sleep a little longer. i'm sure it would have been a different story if she knew the outcome of her sleeping in, had she known, i'm sure she would have gotten up.

[se7entse7en]

Yeah, it still sounds pretty raw to her. Eight years later and it really doesn't sound like she has forgiven herself. But maybe that's a part of her reason for writing this... to help her come to terms with that day.

I think good parents will do whatever they reasonably can to protect their kids, but a line has to be drawn somewhere. I remember a story of someone who wanted a cookie so bad they got on a step stool, crawled on top of the range (turning on all the burners to MAX in the process), and tried to reach up to the top of the cupboard for the cookie jar.

Where there's a will, they will find a way.

I think I was around 9 or so when my parents first let me ride my bike to school (~5km) unsupervised. It wasn't in the city, and it was in a different time, though.

[joel]

i don't know how you cannot be hard on yourself in a situation like this. whether or not she was at fault. a decision or action she did or did not make ultimately affected the cause of her child's death. i think anyone put in this mother's shoes would feel at fault and blame themselves. I don't think it is something that you'd ever forgive yourself for.

[se7entse7en]

But what's the alternative? Being seriously depressed for the rest of your life? What's the point of living then, if you spend all the rest of your days living in the past?

IMO forgiveness NEEDS to happen.

[nature boy]

[joel]

[joel]

[nature boy]

[se7entse7en]

Well, I don't know her. But reading the article left me with an impression of her.

I don't think she IS to blame and there's nothing to forgive. It seems clear that she does, though, and needs to move on. (Even if she was to blame she would need to learn to forgive herself.) It's understandable that she would be where she is, like you said, who wouldn't be, but she needs to forgive herself. It's what she's desperately seeking, desperately longing for, and until she gets it, I don't see her ever living a healthy life. It won't matter how many people's lives she changes. She could have laws changed. She could change thousands or even millions of lives. It wouldn't be enough. If she saw her daughter's ghost, what do you think would be the first words out of her mouth?

I'm sorry.

At this point only her own forgiveness would be enough.

I don't think she could live a healthy, meaningful, joyful life without it. She wouldn't let herself.

But what do I know? I'm no shrink.

[nature boy]

shaun you said exactly what i feel about the situation too.

too many times i've seen this happen to people. they make a mistake and are unable to forgive themselves. they live horrible lives as a result.
however, at the same time i've seen people forgive themselves too quickly, which also leads to bad news in that they feel that they cannot do any wrong, or worse yet, that the wrong they do is justified.

[joel]

i'm not sure any judgement can be made on her quality of life from this article. i've done something i don't think i will ever forgive myself for. and whether i have received forgiveness from others for it, doesn't change whether i am ok with it. forgiveness to me, means you are guilt-free about it. I just don't see that ever happening in her case or in mine either. and it's not as if the guilt overrides all other thoughts and emotions, but it can be something you live with the rest of your life. i'm sure she still has feelings of responsibility to the rest of her family, the world (and why she wrote the article). not forgiving yourself in my mind is not the same as always thinking about it constantly. but i presume in her writing the article, it's going to also stir up a lot of her feelings, including her guilt.

i do agree that it can be self-destructive to be consumed with the guilt that nothing else matters.